What a great idea! Nice experiment! Leaves these NIST clowns no where to hide..............we should email like ten thousand copies of this video to their offices. How much did their report cost? Goes to show you don't always get what you pay for.....then again maybe you do!
Good work Jon. Your critics may suggest that you did not use enough gypsum, diesel and plastic, but I think you made your point. Contact me if you want to do this experiment with thermate.
If I correctly read the patent's instructions on pages 10-11, the following procedure would lead to sol-gel nanothermite:
Dissolve while mixing
1.0 gram of FeCl3
5.0 grams of of 200 proof ethanol
Then mix in
2 grams of propylene oxide (or any other suitable epoxide listed on page 8 of the patent)
Stir
Added (powdered) aluminum just prior to gelation (which is calculated to occur in around 5 minutes)
Dry or paint on steel to dry
One could also add sulfur before gelation to make nanothermate or oxidizers like potassium permanganate to increase the temperature of the aluminothermic reaction.
Either way, it all sounds simple and safe enough, with everything falling inside of ballpark figures. I suspect there are no legal problems to be dealt with either as one would likely only be using standard powdered aluminum in the mix.
until it is proven that nanothermite can cut through steel or even corrode it, then the theory that nanothermite was used on the WTC, despite the dust sample evidence, will always be claimed by the establishment as untenable.
Experiments need to be made using isolated steel beams, like the one in John Cole's video. Using a simple nanocomposite made up of sol-gel nano iron oxide and as fine aluminum powder as the average citizen can get his or her hands on, like the kind commonly used in fireworks, I think is the best path to a better understanding of the sol-gel/paint nanothermite reaction (I seriously doubt that this mixture will be explosive -- but it likely will act just like paint and burn hotter than standard thermite).
It has to be shown clearly, on video, that, unlike fire, nanothermite can at least affect the surface of steel beams. And if the basic variety doesn't work, then the addition of sulfur will be required and then potassium permanganate, or other oxidants -- all perfectly acceptable components that increase the burning strength of thermite without modifying the theory about its use on the WTC -- until there is a steel-cutting reaction.
John_Parulis, didn't you mention in your TruthBurn blog that someone offered you nanothermate but that it was too expensive? Did that individual mention anything about needing a license to use it or about its properties and how they differ from standard thermate?
No to nano thermite or thermate. I contacted every demo company in the US, even Loiseaux. and they all
refused to help me. Someone in Virginia offered to make me a few thermite cutters, but the cost was prohibitive.
Mekt, nanothermite, I believe, when combined with other substances becomes extremely explosive, thus making it a candidate for
thermobaric devices or other types of cutters. Why are people voting you down? You ask ok questions....
Steven Jones mentioned experiments that he had done with thermate on steel previously at 911blogger:
"I (with colleagues) have done the experiment with thermite + sulfur (often called "thermate") acting on a piece of WTC steel. In fact, I did the experiment with BBC filming it! Then we looked at the steel, including use of electron microscopy, and found the same characteristic corrosion as found by Barnett et al. in WTC 7 steel.
OTOH, I know of no expt done to test whether gypsum and heat would have this effect -- I would be VERY surprised, as the sulfur in gypsum is not elemental Sulfur, but is bound as a sulfate (very difficult to reduce to suflur.) We should do the latter experiment to rule out such nonsense. If you can provide direct quotes from the BBC program on this point, it may prove useful in a research note on the subject.
Meanwhile, for BBC to neglect our experimental replication of the observed corrosion, using thermite + sulfur, is rather remarkable in itself, seeing that they filmed one of our experiments, as I distinctly recall."
Gypsum is calcium sulfate dihydrate, not elemental sulfur. To break gypsum down into elemental sulfur requires a rather involved industrial process.
Now I wonder why NIST, which investigated WTC7 for about 6 years, could not bring themselves to do such a simple experiment?
and I am glad that he pointed out that there was a large SEC office on the 12th and 13th floors of WTC 7 which just happened to contain large Enron and Worldcom case files which just happened to be lost when WTC 7 collapsed, as well as the incredible coincidence that this was where the largest fires were located.
Jon, this is another well done video documenting a well planned and executed physical experiment, which along with your other videos shows the present official story on how those three buildings came down in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001 to be nothing but in General Norman Schwarzkopf's words "bovine scatalogy".
So glad you did this experiment! I had been wanting to do this for a while, but didn't have the means. The experiment that you laid out was very well done and the results were very expected. How anyone can suggest that gypsum, which is used in practically every building, would cause sulfidation of steel causing gaping holes and thinning in an ordinary office fire, is beyond me. But then again, 911 was a day a firsts.
Jon Cole joins David Chandler and Erik Lawyer in stepping to the front with very compelling presentations. This is good for the TM. We need more compelling presenters like these to add to the few we have.
The heads of all federal agencies are appointed or are governed by those who are appointed by the president, who for the past half century or more has been a virtual puppet working on behalf of other powerful interests.
The military-industrial complex does a remarkable job of cultivating and positioning those who can spin reality as they do.
Great experiment by the way. Too bad the actual temperatures were not recorded.
I would love the chance to melt a 2" thick piece of structural steel. Burning Man is a great place to do
dangerous experiments like this. Under Burning Man I was temporarily licensed by the state of Nevada to do pyrotechnic displays.
I would love the chance to build a floor section from World Trade 1 or 2 and burn it there for days with jp-5 (jet fuel)
and show that no collapse results. Then ignite some thermate cutter charges on it and watch it come down in seconds....
Thanks for replying, John. It would be great if you could do your floor section demolition. I do think we need to see more thermite in action.
After seeing this excellent video, however, my idea was for your steel "Truth" piece - it could be covered in gypsum, office furniture, splashed with kerosene and set ablaze. As the gypsum burns away and the fire subsides, the intact Truth emerges for all to see. What do you think?
What I learned about very big pyrotechnic displays is that they cost very big bucks. I'm still paying credit card bills
for Truthburn.
I would know how to organize such a display, I believe we have an iron worker in our 9/11 ranks
too. At this point in time the movement needs to do very big newsworthy displays. We are fading. Sorry. It's true.
(we are about truth aren't we?) Big splashy demonstrations like constructing an actual floor section of WTC 1 or 2
and burning it would be a fantastic opportunity for the Truth Movement to regain media center focus.
There's money for this somewhere. Burning Man is the place to do it. Anybody game for raising the money, I'll be happy to organize the rest.
I would love to see PM worm their way out of this one by trying their own experiment.
I won't be holding my breath in anticipation.
I have posted a link to this video and an invitation in their comments section for their piece claiming to explain the WTC7 collapse.
Excellent experiment, Jon. You have displayed once again, like others before you, that the official story does not stand up to scientific scruitny. You have also shown the willfull ignorance that NIST has displayed in the attempt to cover up this most terrible crime.
Sadly, though, most American's will never see this experiement and will continue to accept the official story of 9/11 despite the overwhelming evidence against it.
I hope your viewers will start an all out media blitz with this new information.
Such as to TAM, saying, "What role would sulfidation, or sulfur at all, play in the weakening of the steel and collapse of the buildings?"
The forensics show eutectic steel due to its sulfur content. NIST says that the sulfur could have come from building materials, such as gypsum and diesel fuel.
And as the red worm says, "next time you post something to debunk, make it your hypothesis on what brought the towers down."...
Ok, the NIST theory on what caused the eutectic steel.
I have no experience with JREF. I participated at length against skeptics at amazon.com regarding the arthur daniels review of the PM Debunking 911 book. It's a really long thread now. But I did have some success, I think, in shutting up the stupidest ones. I treat the idiotic replies as ways to double the amount of information I spill out in to the thread, and treated each stupid response as another opportunity to provide more information.
Dr. Greening was kind enough to give a detailed response. While he is "very impressed" with Cole's work, he goes on to say,:
I am prepared to admit that my initial proposal as to how steel was sulfided during the 911 events needs to be modified. Certainly it looks like diesel fuel, gypsum, concrete and aluminum alone are not going to do it .....
However, the one thing I would suggest that still makes "natural" sulfidation of steel a real possibility is the inclusion of chlorine in the experiment. Chlorine species would have been present in the WTC fires from the thermal degradation of the very common plastic PVC which is used in many office building items such as flooring tiles, electrical insulation, TV and computer housings, window blinds, plumbing fixtures, etc, etc.
The combustion of PVC releases copious amounts of the very corrosive gas HCl which attacks even stainless steel. HCl and Cl2, alone or in combination, are also known to have a catalytic effect on high temperature steel corrosion that would leave affected areas of steel very vulnurable to subsequent sulfide attack. The type of accelerated corrosion I am referring to has been observed in the gaseous effluent streams of industrial and municipal waste incinerators. So regrettably, before anyone claims victory on this question, I would say that the experiment needs to be repeated with PVC thrown into the mix.
He goes into much more detail at the thread on this topic at the911forum.freeforums.org. This forum was started as a sanctuary by Greg Urich, for people interested in 911 topics, to be able to discuss and debate without the ad hominems, sophistry and mocking of JREF, as well as without some of the censorship that's occurred here and at the stj911 forum. The rest of the thread is here
Dr. Greening has also stated, in this thread, that
Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to post on 911Blogger, but perhaps you could convey these comments to those guys.
As Dr. Greening is, without a doubt, one of the more responsible scientific critics in the 911 field, perhaps his banning could be reconsidered?
Why on earth would Dr Greening NOT be allowed to post here? I understand he is a defender of the OCT but I doubt he is subject to ad hominem attacks and wild unfounded theories. It would seem to me that his comments would be welcome here as to have another scientist point of view that can add to the discussions. As he posts reasonable objections, they can be evaluated. I mean, isn't that what this site is about? Examining all reasonable points of view so that we can ascertain the truth? just my two cents
peace all
dtg
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
“We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”
- Albert Einstein
This is interesting but does Dr. Greening imply that the burning of PVC will create all of the effects that were observed on the steel beam(i.e. intergranular melting due to the presence of sulfur; gaping holes--some LARGER THAN A SILVER DOLLAR; one-inch column reduced to half-inch thickness; edges curled like a paper scroll thinned to almost razor sharpness; temperatures of the steel beam approaching ~1,000ºC.) or just some corrosive effects?
It may well be true that HCL will activate iron for corrosion attack but that still cannot happen with sulphur if the suphur is in an oxidized state as it is in gypsum. There has to be free unoxidized sulphur for sulfidation to take place. There is no plausible source of free sulphur.
I love this video because it shows how ridiculous this administration is that people actually have to go to this length to demonstrate common sense. However, the unfortunate truth is whoever is deceived by this lie of the government is most likely not going to believe even after actually seeing the truth. People will still scoff and still come up with ridiculous excuses for keeping their eyes and minds shut. Just the other day I was working for a friend a bit older than I (I'm 24 this man is about 40) and we began talking about the truth of 9/11 and he actually believed with all his heart that the planes were the reason for the collapse. There was nothing I could say or do to change his mind, his mind was 'stopped up', not able to receive any other input other than what he had been programmed for already. Follow my blog at http://www.christian-mcguire.com/ God bless you all.
Wonderful! Just Wonderful Video!
What a great idea! Nice experiment! Leaves these NIST clowns no where to hide..............we should email like ten thousand copies of this video to their offices. How much did their report cost? Goes to show you don't always get what you pay for.....then again maybe you do!
Excellent
Excellent. Clear. Concise. Direct. Logically flawless. Another home run video from Jon Cole.
Superb !!
Well constructed and presented. OK, us non-scientist types need to get this amo distributed far and wide!!
Entertaining And Informative
Excellent production.
Nice experiment Jon
Thanks for all your hard work!
Good work Jon. Your critics
Good work Jon. Your critics may suggest that you did not use enough gypsum, diesel and plastic, but I think you made your point. Contact me if you want to do this experiment with thermate.
Why not just use nanothermate?
Source: http://www.google.com/patents?id=1ZB3AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&s...
If I correctly read the patent's instructions on pages 10-11, the following procedure would lead to sol-gel nanothermite:
Dissolve while mixing
1.0 gram of FeCl3
5.0 grams of of 200 proof ethanol
Then mix in
2 grams of propylene oxide (or any other suitable epoxide listed on page 8 of the patent)
Stir
Added (powdered) aluminum just prior to gelation (which is calculated to occur in around 5 minutes)
Dry or paint on steel to dry
One could also add sulfur before gelation to make nanothermate or oxidizers like potassium permanganate to increase the temperature of the aluminothermic reaction.
Either way, it all sounds simple and safe enough, with everything falling inside of ballpark figures. I suspect there are no legal problems to be dealt with either as one would likely only be using standard powdered aluminum in the mix.
People
until it is proven that nanothermite can cut through steel or even corrode it, then the theory that nanothermite was used on the WTC, despite the dust sample evidence, will always be claimed by the establishment as untenable.
Experiments need to be made using isolated steel beams, like the one in John Cole's video. Using a simple nanocomposite made up of sol-gel nano iron oxide and as fine aluminum powder as the average citizen can get his or her hands on, like the kind commonly used in fireworks, I think is the best path to a better understanding of the sol-gel/paint nanothermite reaction (I seriously doubt that this mixture will be explosive -- but it likely will act just like paint and burn hotter than standard thermite).
It has to be shown clearly, on video, that, unlike fire, nanothermite can at least affect the surface of steel beams. And if the basic variety doesn't work, then the addition of sulfur will be required and then potassium permanganate, or other oxidants -- all perfectly acceptable components that increase the burning strength of thermite without modifying the theory about its use on the WTC -- until there is a steel-cutting reaction.
John_Parulis, didn't you mention in your TruthBurn blog that someone offered you nanothermate but that it was too expensive? Did that individual mention anything about needing a license to use it or about its properties and how they differ from standard thermate?
No to nano thermite or
No to nano thermite or thermate. I contacted every demo company in the US, even Loiseaux. and they all
refused to help me. Someone in Virginia offered to make me a few thermite cutters, but the cost was prohibitive.
Mekt, nanothermite, I believe, when combined with other substances becomes extremely explosive, thus making it a candidate for
thermobaric devices or other types of cutters. Why are people voting you down? You ask ok questions....
Steve Jones' experiment
Steven Jones mentioned experiments that he had done with thermate on steel previously at 911blogger:
"I (with colleagues) have done the experiment with thermite + sulfur (often called "thermate") acting on a piece of WTC steel. In fact, I did the experiment with BBC filming it! Then we looked at the steel, including use of electron microscopy, and found the same characteristic corrosion as found by Barnett et al. in WTC 7 steel.
OTOH, I know of no expt done to test whether gypsum and heat would have this effect -- I would be VERY surprised, as the sulfur in gypsum is not elemental Sulfur, but is bound as a sulfate (very difficult to reduce to suflur.) We should do the latter experiment to rule out such nonsense. If you can provide direct quotes from the BBC program on this point, it may prove useful in a research note on the subject.
Meanwhile, for BBC to neglect our experimental replication of the observed corrosion, using thermite + sulfur, is rather remarkable in itself, seeing that they filmed one of our experiments, as I distinctly recall."
Gypsum is calcium sulfate dihydrate, not elemental sulfur. To break gypsum down into elemental sulfur requires a rather involved industrial process.
Now I wonder why NIST, which investigated WTC7 for about 6 years, could not bring themselves to do such a simple experiment?
WoW!
5 stars!
Clear and Concise
This experiment is elegant. I particularly like the sense of humor - the burning of old bank records......Great job, Jon.
Jon seems to get all the points in there
and I am glad that he pointed out that there was a large SEC office on the 12th and 13th floors of WTC 7 which just happened to contain large Enron and Worldcom case files which just happened to be lost when WTC 7 collapsed, as well as the incredible coincidence that this was where the largest fires were located.
Jon, this is another well done video documenting a well planned and executed physical experiment, which along with your other videos shows the present official story on how those three buildings came down in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001 to be nothing but in General Norman Schwarzkopf's words "bovine scatalogy".
Superb Video! Excellent work.
Superb Video! Excellent work.
So glad you did this
So glad you did this experiment! I had been wanting to do this for a while, but didn't have the means. The experiment that you laid out was very well done and the results were very expected. How anyone can suggest that gypsum, which is used in practically every building, would cause sulfidation of steel causing gaping holes and thinning in an ordinary office fire, is beyond me. But then again, 911 was a day a firsts.
Excellent Jon
Jon Cole joins David Chandler and Erik Lawyer in stepping to the front with very compelling presentations. This is good for the TM. We need more compelling presenters like these to add to the few we have.
Well how about you too
Well how about you too Chris....Short but the point video essays on disinfo.
NIST, Like All Federal Agencies, Are Politically Guided
The heads of all federal agencies are appointed or are governed by those who are appointed by the president, who for the past half century or more has been a virtual puppet working on behalf of other powerful interests.
The military-industrial complex does a remarkable job of cultivating and positioning those who can spin reality as they do.
Great experiment by the way. Too bad the actual temperatures were not recorded.
NIST Has Large Nanotechnology Division
Interesting browsing.
http://www.nist.gov/nanotechnology-portal.cfm
It got hot enough to melt aluminum
which is 1,220 degrees F, so that would at least be a point to be made in regard to temperature.
Brilliant!
I have been wanting to see an experiment like this for a long time. Thank you so much for making this effort - you are a hero!
Perhaps the folks at Truth Burn could take your idea and put their piece in a big fire. If anyone knows them, can you suggest it, please :-)
Thanks. That would be me
Thanks. That would be me http://911truthburn.blogspot.com
I would love the chance to melt a 2" thick piece of structural steel. Burning Man is a great place to do
dangerous experiments like this. Under Burning Man I was temporarily licensed by the state of Nevada to do pyrotechnic displays.
I would love the chance to build a floor section from World Trade 1 or 2 and burn it there for days with jp-5 (jet fuel)
and show that no collapse results. Then ignite some thermate cutter charges on it and watch it come down in seconds....
That, I would like to see!
Thanks for replying, John. It would be great if you could do your floor section demolition. I do think we need to see more thermite in action.
After seeing this excellent video, however, my idea was for your steel "Truth" piece - it could be covered in gypsum, office furniture, splashed with kerosene and set ablaze. As the gypsum burns away and the fire subsides, the intact Truth emerges for all to see. What do you think?
What I learned about very big
What I learned about very big pyrotechnic displays is that they cost very big bucks. I'm still paying credit card bills
for Truthburn.
I would know how to organize such a display, I believe we have an iron worker in our 9/11 ranks
too. At this point in time the movement needs to do very big newsworthy displays. We are fading. Sorry. It's true.
(we are about truth aren't we?) Big splashy demonstrations like constructing an actual floor section of WTC 1 or 2
and burning it would be a fantastic opportunity for the Truth Movement to regain media center focus.
There's money for this somewhere. Burning Man is the place to do it. Anybody game for raising the money, I'll be happy to organize the rest.
I would love to see PM worm
I would love to see PM worm their way out of this one by trying their own experiment.
I won't be holding my breath in anticipation.
I have posted a link to this video and an invitation in their comments section for their piece claiming to explain the WTC7 collapse.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/debunking-911-m...
The irrefutable and most important point (seems to me)
Is that this experiment is PUBLIC - open to examination and testability.
More Science!
Excellent experiment, Jon. You have displayed once again, like others before you, that the official story does not stand up to scientific scruitny. You have also shown the willfull ignorance that NIST has displayed in the attempt to cover up this most terrible crime.
Sadly, though, most American's will never see this experiement and will continue to accept the official story of 9/11 despite the overwhelming evidence against it.
I hope your viewers will start an all out media blitz with this new information.
Bravo !
I will send this video through e-mail accounts
far and wide, how about you?
peace,pw
Very well presented!
This needs to be circulated widely. Have Greening et al been made aware of this?
These Finnish bonfire observations are relevant here:
http://juhannuskokko.blogspot.com/
Posted on jref
I thought the jref rabble might want an opportunity to provide their usual brand of semantics and invective and "debunk" the experiment.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=180570
Do you want to reply to those guys?
Such as to TAM, saying, "What role would sulfidation, or sulfur at all, play in the weakening of the steel and collapse of the buildings?"
The forensics show eutectic steel due to its sulfur content. NIST says that the sulfur could have come from building materials, such as gypsum and diesel fuel.
And as the red worm says, "next time you post something to debunk, make it your hypothesis on what brought the towers down."...
Ok, the NIST theory on what caused the eutectic steel.
I have no experience with JREF. I participated at length against skeptics at amazon.com regarding the arthur daniels review of the PM Debunking 911 book. It's a really long thread now. But I did have some success, I think, in shutting up the stupidest ones. I treat the idiotic replies as ways to double the amount of information I spill out in to the thread, and treated each stupid response as another opportunity to provide more information.
Batman beacon for Chris
Batman beacon for Chris Sarns. Batman beacon for Chris Sarns....
Dr. Greening responds
Dr. Greening was kind enough to give a detailed response. While he is "very impressed" with Cole's work, he goes on to say,:
He goes into much more detail at the thread on this topic at the911forum.freeforums.org. This forum was started as a sanctuary by Greg Urich, for people interested in 911 topics, to be able to discuss and debate without the ad hominems, sophistry and mocking of JREF, as well as without some of the censorship that's occurred here and at the stj911 forum. The rest of the thread is here
Dr. Greening has also stated, in this thread, that
As Dr. Greening is, without a doubt, one of the more responsible scientific critics in the 911 field, perhaps his banning could be reconsidered?
Then clearly the next experiment
that Jon should take on is one including the same materials as before but with large amounts of PVC added to the mix.
Just like Dr. Greening said. ;)
Yes, that's my take
exactly
Why on earth..?
Why on earth would Dr Greening NOT be allowed to post here? I understand he is a defender of the OCT but I doubt he is subject to ad hominem attacks and wild unfounded theories. It would seem to me that his comments would be welcome here as to have another scientist point of view that can add to the discussions. As he posts reasonable objections, they can be evaluated. I mean, isn't that what this site is about? Examining all reasonable points of view so that we can ascertain the truth? just my two cents
peace all
dtg
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
“We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”
- Albert Einstein
This is interesting...
This is interesting but does Dr. Greening imply that the burning of PVC will create all of the effects that were observed on the steel beam(i.e. intergranular melting due to the presence of sulfur; gaping holes--some LARGER THAN A SILVER DOLLAR; one-inch column reduced to half-inch thickness; edges curled like a paper scroll thinned to almost razor sharpness; temperatures of the steel beam approaching ~1,000ºC.) or just some corrosive effects?
He has posited a hypothesis..
and doesn't claim to know the answer. (AFAIK) That's what experimentation is for.
I don't think so
It may well be true that HCL will activate iron for corrosion attack but that still cannot happen with sulphur if the suphur is in an oxidized state as it is in gypsum. There has to be free unoxidized sulphur for sulfidation to take place. There is no plausible source of free sulphur.
common sense
I love this video because it shows how ridiculous this administration is that people actually have to go to this length to demonstrate common sense. However, the unfortunate truth is whoever is deceived by this lie of the government is most likely not going to believe even after actually seeing the truth. People will still scoff and still come up with ridiculous excuses for keeping their eyes and minds shut. Just the other day I was working for a friend a bit older than I (I'm 24 this man is about 40) and we began talking about the truth of 9/11 and he actually believed with all his heart that the planes were the reason for the collapse. There was nothing I could say or do to change his mind, his mind was 'stopped up', not able to receive any other input other than what he had been programmed for already. Follow my blog at http://www.christian-mcguire.com/ God bless you all.